Book Review: The Tommy Koh Reader (2013)

I wanted to share my favorite excerpts from The Tommy Koh Reader (2013). Tommy Koh, a former Singaporean diplomat, is a lawyer who spent 20 years in the United States. In addition to supporting various Singaporean artists--some of whom were jailed over his protestations--he has expertise in international sea rights (unclo), diplomacy, and of course international law. 

On interracial marriage: I was disappointed with [LKY's] views on race. He revealed that if his daughter had wished to marry a black African, he would have had no qualms telling her, "You're mad." [A common British expression for "crazy" or "unrealistic."] He also expressed reservations about inter-racial marriages. We should not judge a person on the basis of colour, race or religion. (2011) 

[In this excerpt, which is hyperlinked, Koh criticizes some of Lee Kuan Yew's more controversial comments, including what he calls LKY's reservations about interracial marriages.]

My own thoughts: I can see how Singaporean founder Lee Kuan Yew's über-practicality makes him suspicious of interracial marriages--including white and Chinese--especially when differences between two people's upbringings are vast. Practical-minded men see probabilities as more poignant than possibilities. LKY would argue the separation of Barack Obama's parents supports his views; Koh would point to Barack Obama's life as a counter-argument. 

Unlike LKY, Koh does not transfer his professional adherence to practicality to personal relationships, despite politics being a form of relationship-building. In truth, Koh's success in resolving post-1991 issues between the former Soviet Union and the Baltic states required him to be equal measures idealistic and practical--a practical idealist, if you will--whereas LKY was practical in a most lopsided manner. No one disputes LKY's open-hearted, transparent style meant some of his comments could be taken out of context. For example, LKY once said Muslims were more difficult to integrate than other religions, a comment he later retracted. What he meant was that he believed the average Muslim holds onto his or her religious beliefs more firmly than the average Christian or Buddhist. As a result, anyone marrying a Muslim would most likely have to convert, and one can see greater obstacles to marriages between Muslims and other religions that would not exist in relationships between, say, Buddhists and Christians. In context, everything LKY said made sense, but one sometimes had to give him an extremely sympathetic ear to avoid misunderstandings. Ultimately, it seems clear Singapore benefitted from a well-balanced team of founding diplomats and politicians. 

On Singapore's foreign policy: "Singapore's leaders... use a vocabulary which suggests that Singapore adheres to the Realist school, which takes a cold-eyed, unsentimental view of the world. The Realist worships power and is usually dismissive of other considerations. How can a Realist State attach so much importance to international law? Singapore's ideology is actually not Realism, but Pragmatism. Our adherence to international law is based upon utility and not morality. Small States are better off in a world ruled by law than in a lawless world." (2013) 

On Singaporean values: "The Singaporean cultural DNA includes a gene that respects all faiths." 

A reminder Trump's Presidency is a feature, not a bug, of USA culture: "I observe that American politics has been afflicted by three unwholesome influences. These are Hollywood, Madison Avenue and television. Hollywood exerts a powerful and pervasive influence on every aspect of American life and culture... in judging the presidential debates, 'the public responds overwhelmingly to the sweat on the brow [a Nixon vs. Kennedy reference], style, manner and personality' rather than to the substance of the debate... speeches by American politicians are often characterized by bombast, hyperbole and exaggerations." (written in 1983) 

On USA's political structure: If you are interested in understanding USA politics, you must read Tommy Koh's "De Tocqueville Revisited" speech at JFK School of Government, Harvard University, September 5, 1986. It is the best summary I have ever read regarding USA's political structure. Sample sentence: "The US system of government, characterized by the separation of powers among the three branches of government and by many checks and balances, is designed to protect the liberty of the individual." 

On cities: "[C]ities succeed in the global economy if they can achieve excellence in one or more of the following three areas: thinking, manufacturing and trading." 

On South China Sea: "First, it is the highway for trade, shipping and telecommunications. 80% of world trade is seaborne. 1/3 of world trade and 1/2 the world's traffic in oil and gas pass through the South China Sea. Freedom of navigation in the South China Sea is, therefore, of critical importance to China, Japan, South Korea, ASEAN and other trading nations and maritime powers. 

Second, it is rich in fish and other living resources. Fish is a principal source of protein and fishing is a source of employment for millions of Asians who live in coastal communities. 

Third, it is presumed that there are significant deposits of oil and gas in the continental shelves underneath the South China Sea...

[A]rtificial islands are not entitled to any maritime zones except for a 500m safety zone... A rock is entitled to a 12-nautical mile (22 km) territorial sea... An island is entitled to a territorial sea, a 200-nautical mile exclusive economic zone and a continental shelf. Under Article 121 of the convention [UN Convention on the Law of the Sea], the difference between a rock and an island is that an island is capable of sustaining human habitation or economic life."" ("Mapping Out Rival Claims to the South China Sea," The Straits Times, 13 September 2011) 

On environmental preservation: "47% of Singapore's total land area is covered by greenery." (2012) [My own note: don't let the shiny skyscrapers fool you--most of SE Asia is and was mostly tropical jungle.] 

On recycling waste: "We should also consider... by requiring industrial and commercial establishments, as well as hotels and food courts, to separate food waste from other kinds of waste at source. The food waste, when treated by anaerobic digestion, will produce biogas which can, in turn, be used to generate renewable electricity." 

On air conditioning: the joke among foreign diplomats is that Singapore, because of air conditioning over-use, actually has two seasons: "summer outdoors and winter indoors." 

On water: "Water is more precious than gold. Without water, there would be no life on earth. The irony is that we take water for granted. In some countries, water is treated as a public good and given away for free. This invariably leads to over-consumption and wastage... By 2050, as many as 3/4 of the world's population could be affected by water scarcity... [Today] The fact that 700 million Asians do not have access to safe drinking water... is unacceptable." (2012) 

© Matthew Rafat (2020)

Book Review: Ponti by Sharlene Teo

I'm in Singapore, and I just finished Ponti (2018) by Singaporean-born Sharlene Teo. The title refers to a fictional movie Ponti! and the myth of the Pontianak. A Pontianak is a plain or deformed woman who makes a deal with the devil to become beautiful and irresistible to men, but with a Dracula-like catch: she must drink male blood to survive. (Yennefer of Vengerberg in 2019's The Witcher series is the European version.) Though Teo's book does not revolve around the popular Malaysian fable, viewers unfamiliar with Asian culture's ample room for ghosts will benefit from watching the 2018 movie Kuntilanak (MVP Pictures). 

In the book, I sensed Teo trying to fashion a story around the idea that real horror can be found in broken dreams, broken families, and broken friendships; unfortunately, too much effort is required by the reader to make such leaps. For example, in the beginning and the end, we are introduced to three elderly characters, all of whom are so unbelievable, they function as a tableau for the author's descriptive skills rather than logical plot devices. I am still determining if I was supposed to view the aforementioned characters as war victims or indications the protagonists had no idea how lucky they really were. Due to such gaps, the book underperforms its potential, and we are left with a melacholy novel interrupted by flashes of literary brilliance. 

Despite its shortcomings, Teo's Ponti (2018) is the only fiction book I would recommend to anyone planning to visit Singapore. Using beautifully-written prose, the author accurately captures much of Singaporean life, including hawker centres and even Bata department stores. 

Below are my favorite quotes from the book. 

© Matthew Mehdi Rafat (2020) 

On Singapore's heat: "Singapore lies just one degree north of the equator and it feels like the bullseye where the sun is aiming a shot at the earth with the intention of killing it." 

On gradually losing memories: "His voice is vague. What I have is a paternal approximation, borrowed from daytime soaps. No recordings exist of him. Voices are the first things to go. Next, speech patterns. The turn of a phrase. What was meant as a joke and what was wisdom? You don't get to choose what sticks and what fades."

On dating: "I can picture it. Date night: he'll bring her over some lontong and soya bean milk from the hawker centre near her place and she will beam at him, accept thankfully. And later on they will dim the lights and f*ck full of earnestness to [British operatic pop singer] Adele or something." 

On teenage jealousy: "I cannot imagine them growing old, or any better-looking. There is no limit to this soft sort of envy; it makes a wistful, gawping owl of me. I crane my neck to watch them leave." 

On how relationships decline: "Every evening we talked over each other in circles and absolutes, casting desperate blame spells and generalizations like a blanket over a dying animal. By that point it was you ALWAYS do this and why do you ALWAYS do that. Everything we did together was fraught and boring... I had been trying all my life, and at just 31, I was sick of it." 

On beauty: "Eunice is familiar yet exotic: white enough to fit in, desirably foreign enough to stand out."

On cards: "It sounds like a motivational card. Emptily hopeful."

On teenage activity: "Lying on her tiny bed in half a daydream and dirty clothes was her favourite thing to do."

On grief: "Grief makes ghosts of people. I don't just mean the ones lost, but the leftover people."

On the difficulties of being with a grieving friend: "Yet by the end of that year, being friends with Szu was like carrying around a heavy, sloshing bucket of water. Her grief weighed me down and I couldn't escape its drip."

On lessons to impart to our children: "It's a hot, horrible earth we are stuck on and it's only getting worse. But still. I want to care for you always. May you be safe, may you feel ease. May you have a long, messy life full of love." 

Interesting words: exeunt; leonine; cynosure; epicanthal; pomfret; gormless; auteur; myxomatosis. 

Segregation as Logical Extension of American Policies

Regular readers understand de facto segregation--based on race or class--is the primary scourge of modern Western societies, particularly when governments do not adhere to any borrowing limits. Yet, few people realize modern segregation is rooted in logic, not a nature-based pattern of "birds of a feather flocking together." To summarize, in a decentralized environment without a trusted mediator, new residents gravitate towards informal norms, including those relating to communication and conflict resolution; and because self-segregation allows minorities to replicate their informal norms (for example, see Amish or Mennonites), immigrants as a whole have tended to succeed when they self-segregate and to fail when they don't. (The West's response to its failure to correct racial segregation has been emphasizing or promoting individual minority outliers.) 

When Malcolm X and others discussed separation, they weren't just concerned with violence and police dogs--they were acknowledging a link between failure and ineffective governance in their own communities. More controversially, W.E.B. DuBois, Harvard's first African-American graduate--also referring to a lack of institutional trust--wrote of Germany's Jews banding together due to "oppression in the past." 

Kwame Appiah's The Lies that Bind (2018)

In my own California county, I notice clear distinctions when I drive 15 minutes in any direction, with Sunnyvale "belonging" to Indian-owned businesses, Cupertino "belonging" to Taiwanese-owned businesses, and East San Jose "belonging" to Vietnamese-owned businesses. Like DuBois, I, too, have seen minority Jews succeeding through voluntary separation, though in my case, I had argued other minorities ought to follow the same example in America. In the end, regardless of profession or location, the catalyst for self-segregation remains the same: a lack of trust in institutions, especially police and courts, increases the likelihood self-segregation will provide favorable outcomes, leading to a rise in the informal economy, which eventually weakens social cohesion and inhibits formal economic activity. 

Some countries understand this phenomenon well. Singapore, one of the world's most diverse countries, has taken so many measures to signal integrity, its overreach is sometimes comical--though no one can argue with its success. Like everywhere else, Singapore can be clannish; after all, its Chinese population was famously "kicked out" of Malaysia, and its experience with riots in 1964 led to its founder insisting "on a multiracial, multireligious, multicultural model to provide a cohesive identity for the new nation." (Kwame Appiah, The Lies that Bind Us (2018), hardcover, pp. 93) Despite its hallowed status as SE Asia's least corrupt country, most Singaporean experts have not fully connected their tough social harmony laws with a lack of entrenched mafia or a black market. Why not? Given the West's history, where racial subjugation and slavery have been based on widely publicized theories of inferiority, Western-educated graduates tend to focus on laws relating to "free speech" or race more than others, missing the fact that Singapore's laws restricted all non-modern behavior--to the point of fining residents in their own condominiums for being naked. (LKY, a lawyer educated in London, had no patience for those wishing to maintain "backwards" kampong behavior.) Somehow, Singapore knew it first had to establish social harmony then economic success, especially if it demanded sacrifices from most of its residents. 

Oddly enough, when modern thinkers today argue multiculturalism has failed, they do not cite poorly distributed government funding, inadequate governmental hiring practices, or convergence between vested political interests and historically one-race residency. They certainly do not point to their own failures of institutional integrity, causing either intentional or unintentional misdirection and further strengthening separatists, who often overlap with racists. The popular solution to modern society's ailments has been more meritocracy; however, elevated debt levels in both private and public markets have effectively propped up existing institutions regardless of merit, thereby entrenching the status quo. 

Appiah's The Lies that Bind (2018)

Indeed, any country where a man can borrow billions of dollars to invest in real estate under a tax code favoring such investments, then become president primarily on such a basis, means wealth and banking have become divorced from societal good. The effects of such a result are not only a coarsening of culture and greater skepticism of the kind of public-private partnerships making Singapore and China successful, but disillusionment, especially among young adults. 

As I write, I am reminded of 12 year-old Cassius Clay being assisted by Louisville police officer Joe Martin in a state prohibiting race-mixing in social venues, public parks, recreation centers, schools, and public transportation (one reason Cassius must have been so distraught over his lost bicycle). What was it that made Officer Martin look at a scrawny, tearful boy, realize the bike was gone for good, and decide he had to make sure this kid wouldn't lose hope? Why did the same conservative legal Establishment in that same Louisville city continue to protect the teenager when he was no longer Cassius Clay but a man with a foreign name and an unfamiliar religion? How did one Southern city looked down upon by Northerners look out for a boy different from themselves and then a man even more different than the boy? It must be because social cohesion and integrity, whether in Singapore in 2001 or Kentucky in 1954, are the stewards of any successful enterprise, cities included, and authority, when just, can prevail in spite of written laws or because of them. 

From Louisville's Muhammad Ali Museum, featuring meritocracy in action.

I do not claim to know all the reasons some communities succeed while others fail. I do know, however, the more Americans continue their current path, where they do not learn from Singapore and its foundation of informally and formally enforced social harmony and also from Louisville's refusal to allow formal laws to dictate social outcomes, the more they create a society where a Schwinn bike is just another bicycle, and a police officer's badge just another piece of tin. 

© Matthew Mehdi Rafat (2019)

Kishore Mabubani in Singapore

Ideals of the 1960s Have Been Extinguished Worldwide

My country feels that money spent on weapons of war and armies is money wasted... security must be secured through the collective and effective strength of the UN... We seek a welfare state and not a warfare state... 

If independence and freedom are not to be empty slogans then we must continue to spend as much of our resources as we can on fighting the only war that matters to the people--the war against poverty, ignorance, disease, bad housing, unemployment, and against anything and everything which deny dignity and freedom to our fellow man. 

-- S. Rajaratnam's September 21, 1965 speech to the United Nations after Singapore's recognition as an independent country 

Chua Beng Huat on weakening of social welfare ideals since 1970s

What happens when trade agreements and the ability to transport your country's products to another country are linked to security agreements and weapons purchases? Today, Singapore's largest budget item is defense spending, and men are required to serve in the military. 

Chua Beng Huat

According to the pacifist Jehovah's Witnesses, an established religion, as of December 2018, Singapore has imprisoned nine of their members over their refusal to serve in Singapore's military. 

In other news, Singapore's foremost living intellectual, Kishore Mahbubani has written, "Happy societies are also more resilient societies. We have had a happiness deficit for some time." (Opinion, The Straits Times, 12 July 2014, from Can Singapore Survive? (2015), pp. 108) 

Singapore will certainly survive, but will Singaporeans be as proud as they were in 1965? Will they be as happy or as honorable as LKY's generation? 

Bonus I: from Kishore Mahbubani's Can Singapore Survive? (2015)

Bonus II: 

Presentation by Mikhail Melvin Goh of Have Halal, Will Travel

National Library, Singapore,
January 9, 2019 

Mikhail Melvin Goh, founder of Have Halal, Will Travel (#HHWT), spoke on behalf of Eye on Asia, a National Library project designed to increase interest in ASEAN. 

A summary of his presentation and ensuing Q&A session is below:

Melvin was his name before he converted to Islam, and he now goes by  the Muslim name Mikhail (a variation of Michael, the Archangel).

Goh's background in digital marketing has proven highly useful in his current endeavor. His travel publications reach around 9.4 million viewers.

Melvin calls Muslims--all 1.8 billion of them--the biggest invisible market segment worldwide. Malaysia, Singapore, and Indonesia have 240 million Muslims. Indonesia in particular is seeing a boom in its middle class, creating new demands for services and products. Yet, despite these numbers, as recently as three to four years ago, no major companies were consistently targeting this group.

Melvin was drinking ocha/tea at a Mongolian restaurant in Tokyo when a terrorist attack occurred in Paris. Someone asked him, why are Muslims killing non-Muslims, and what is halal? Japan’s exposure to Muslims is mostly through its 100,000 domestic Muslim residents. At that moment, he thought to himself, "What if I use this platform I’ve created to facilitate meaningful exchanges?"

Islam means submission "to God." The five pillars of Islam are: shahada (belief in one God, with Muhammad (PBUH) as his final messenger); salah (prayer); zakat (charity); Hajj (pilgrimage to Mecca); and fasting (during Ramadan).

Halal means permissible. It impacts multiple industries, including food, cosmetics, personal care products, and pharmaceuticals. For example, alcohol, which is haram (aka impermissible), is a key ingredient in many drugs. In terms of lifestyle, key halal areas include food, travel, fashion, and Islamic banking (sharia-compliant finance). 

What's the biggest trend in travel? Muslims are looking for authentic travel experiences. 74% “wish to immerse themselves in culture.” Japan is an oft-cited destination. Sight-seeing and local food are top desires.

About 20% of Muslims [geographic area not specified] are highly educated--doctors, engineers, and scientists who travel frequently.

Muslim travelers want autonomy, authenticity (to live like locals), and a sense of belonging.

Goh's recommendations for businesses: take stock what you already have—many workers in larger companies are already Muslim, so ask them any questions you have; get the basics right; promote your products through the right channels; and focus on experiences.

Q&A session

Q: The halal designation seems to be overused. Do you ever wonder if your industry is diluting the concept of halal by using it across so many different areas? 

A: Halal is a set of principles but it varies widely; for example, in SE Asia, prawns are halal, but in many places in the Middle East, they’re not. Certification is not the only way to go; over-labeling is occurring because of market demand.

Q: What were your experiences and challenges in working with governments?

A: “China is using tourism as a weapon” in terms of directing travel agencies not to send tourists to certain countries when political disputes arise. For example, the number of Chinese tourists in Korea dramatically dropped for a time because of the Chinese government’s actions and recommendations. In short, China mixes tourism and politics. Overall, governments must first realize Islamic travelers are a lucrative market. Some governments think Muslims are a national security issue and prefer to “wait and see.” In Australia, some people don’t like Muslims, and windows displaying halal signs were smashed after terrorist attacks in other countries.

Q: How do you find halal shops overseas? Some shops aren’t listed even though they are halal.

A: It’s [people like] you. Most countries are not like Singapore, top-down, consistent—a lot of things occur at a grassroots level. We have several ways of getting information. One, as I mentioned, is user input; second is official government agencies; third is writers. 

Q: How do you scale?

A: Scaling is like piloting a rocketship into space. If you don’t know where you’re flying to, there’s no point. How much fuel (capital, user engagement) do you put into the rocket? In which direction do you point the rocket? 

Q: What are your sources of income?

A: Consulting for airlines and delivery services, especially in the area of customization for Muslim customers. 

Q: How do you reach out to your 9.4 million viewers and build trust?

A: We found people who were interested in the same things as us, and who were willing to give information because they believed in us. We gain trust by having standards and having a vision. We are not separatists—we do not say, “We are halal, you are not.” We believe in integration. Be human, stand for something.

Q: How do you see Singapore's role in halal issues? 

A: We are a multi-ethnic population. We have been living side by side for a very long time. We are very blessed because of our history. One of the things Singapore faces as a challenge is the articulation of the next step. Why would I travel if I'm going to eat the same thing [in Singapore as in Indonesia]? It becomes a question of story-telling and differentiation. The key is to improve services across the board, not just food. Thankfully, governments are willing to listen. 

Q: What is the future for halal travel in Thailand?

A: Thailand, like Singapore, is very blessed [in terms of diversity]. Bangkok has whole streets with Muslim businesses. Thailand is also blessed in terms of geography—its time zone means short flight times for ASEAN residents. People are nice. The challenge for the Thai government is to get tourists out of Bangkok and into places like Chiang Mai, Chiang Rai, etc. 

Interview with HalalTrip's Fazal Bahardeen

I met HalalTrip’s Fazal Bahardeen in Geylang Serai, Singapore. 

Q: You work in the travel business. What countries would you recommend?

A: Malaysia, specifically Penang and the beach town of Langkawi. Also, Jordan. Petra is beautiful.

Q: It’s not too touristy?

A: Well, it is, but you can focus on the architecture and surroundings. You’re seeing structures that have been there for thousands of years.

Q: They told me the same thing about Stonehenge, and I wasn’t impressed. I try to read a book about a place before I go—for Indonesia, I’d recommend Toer’s This Earth of Mankind—but I can’t think of a single book by a Jordanian author.

A: Stonehenge is just a bunch of stones, but Petra has houses, people used to live there. The city was the site of an advanced civilization.

Q: What’s the name of the civilization you’re referring to?

A: There are two or three, but the Nabatean Kingdom comes to mind. Petra is a very old place. Wadi Musa means the Valley of Moses. Some scholars say Koranic verses exist about the people who used to live there, how they were so big and used to mountain living. 

Q: We’re having biryani together, which I’ve had many times, but this dessert is new to me. What is suji? It’s like kheer, but not the same. Absolutely delicious.

A: The ingredient is semolina… same thing they use for cous cous. It’s a grain.

Q: You actually have two companies, HalalTrip and CrescentRating. Tell me about them.

A: CrescentRating is completely different from the [HalalTrip] app. CrescentRating is BtoB [business to business]. It helps businesses target the Muslim market. We write reports, work with governments, create training programs, and issue ratings based on our proprietary algorithm. Basically, CresentRating provides [consulting] services to enable the industry to target and welcome Muslim travelers. It helps Muslim travelers find out where to go, what are the places for food, etc. 

The consumer-generated reviews are on HalalTrip, which is like TripAdvisor. On CrescentRating, we would determine whether a hotel fits our criteria and provide a rating from 1 to 7. The HalalTrip app would then display our own rating.

Q: How do you ensure accuracy in the information used by your algorithm? Do you travel yourself to check out the places you rate?

A: I don’t travel myself to fulfill the ratings. If you want a rating, the hotel, shopping mall or restaurant has to apply. Once they register, then we get a local person to do the audit. We have partners in some countries and local company contacts. In some cases, we have freelancers, people who can register on our website to be auditors. 

Q: How do you ensure the veracity of the data if you rely on third parties?

A: Our contractors/auditors are trained by us. The hotel, restaurant, or other establishment will register on our website and provide/upload all the information we request. The auditor goes to the hotel and confirms the hotel has submitted correct information.

Q: Tell me more about HalalTrip.

A: HalalTrip is separated into three parts. One is the content we create ourselves: city guides, place discovery content, etc. We have a continually growing database of halal restaurants, we have [travel] attraction guides, and all these are created by us.

Second, we are dedicated to our tagline: “Get inspired, go, inspire others.” The content we create is to inspire others to travel, and we provide services, not just guides, making it easier to book hotels, visit attractions, and go sightseeing. We already have hotels [on our site], but it’s not enough. We need to expand, add experiences [like Airbnb], etc. 

Third, we encourage people to share their experiences. Generally, our travelers share their experiences with halal restaurants and mosques on our app. Here is the problem we have: sometimes we are unable to check the halalness of it. We try and check it as much as we can. We have a stamp that says “User Verified” but no independent fact checking for that rating. If it is HalalTrip certified, then we have done some research, though not always directly, to verify the halalness. We also have a third stamp, which indicates an establishment has been rated and verified by CrescentRating.

Q: I notice you already offer travel packages all around the world, even in non-Muslim countries like Croatia. I know Croatia’s economy depends substantially on tourism, but how did you end up working with them?

A: Most travel agencies come to us. Last week, a few French travel agencies came to us. It is them who come to us. Why do they come? We work with all suppliers, and we operate in different countries. We educate them on the needs of Muslim travelers.

Q: What does halal mean? Does it refer only to a specific procedure to prepare meat?

A: Halal means permissible, as opposed to haram. Halal food means permissible food. Vegetables and fruits are permissible, so a vegetarian restaurant is halal. When it comes to meat, it has to be slaughtered in a certain manner, according to Islamic requirements.

[Editor’s Note: zabihah aka dhabihah is a specific Arabic word meaning “slaughtered,” coming from another Arabic word, thabih, sometimes pronounced zabih. It only discusses one specific element of the halal requirements, whereas the term "halal" encompasses broader issues including but not limited to consumption of blood, types of permissible meat, etc.]

One might ask, “What is halal certified?” A certification body checks if this restaurant serves non-halal food. If the restaurant is only serving halal, it provides a certification. It does not mean they have to serve meat. 

[Interviewer's Note: under this broad definition, a Hindu restaurant serving only vegetarian food could be halal-certified. Attracting vegetarians is one way to broaden the appeal of the halal rating, and it will be interesting to see how such an approach will be implemented.] 

Q: Brigitte Bardot has campaigned against both halal slaughter and kosher slaughter (called shechitah). She claims the way animals are religiously slaughtered is inherently cruel. What do you say about her claims?

A: I'm not interested in Brigitte Bardot. I'm focused on my company. 

Q: How long has your company been around, and why does it seem like Islamic-based marketing is finally becoming popular? 

A: HalalTrip has been around 3 years. CrescentRating 10 years. Regarding your second question, there has been an increased awareness around Muslim consumers and [therefore] more and more halal options.

Q: How do you differentiate yourself?

A: We focus on what we have been doing. We are not focused on the competition currently. The space is big… the players in the space, you can count on your fingers… Right now, competition is not the [issue] that keeps me awake.

Q: Given the limited number of halal/Muslim traveler industry players, do you try to collaborate with each other rather than compete?

A: Collaborate? Not really… we know them personally, we are on good terms with them, but we are focused on what we are doing.

Q: What’s the most difficult part about your job?

A: Travel takes a toll on me, but that’s me… in the entrepreneurship space, we just do it.

Q: What’s the most challenging part about your job?

A: We are trying to raise funds. Other than that, when you are a startup, you get up in the morning, solve 100 things, go to sleep, and the next day, there are another 100 things to solve. That’s the life of a startup.

Q: I notice you have an Instagram account.

A: We are on FB, IG, Twitter… also YouTube. On Facebook, we have about 500,000 likes. We don’t spend too much money getting “likes.” We don’t have the time. We rarely pay Facebook for advertising. When we do, we boost some of our posts—that’s it. 

Q: In Singapore, what are your favorite halal restaurants?

A: Zam Zam (North Bridge Road), Rumah Makan Minang (18 Kandahar Street), and Bryani Dam (Geylang Serai hawker centre).

Q: What does it meant to you to be Singaporean?

A: Singapore is a secure, unique place, with all the efficiencies of a developed city, but also multiethnic and cosmopolitan.

Q: That’s a nice description, but I was asking what it means to you to be able to call yourself Singaporean. An American might answer, “freedom.”

A: As Singaporeans, we come from an environment which is very regulated and reliable and efficient, with strong governance in the business sector. I am proud to come from a city that represents these traits.

Note: this post has been updated to correct a few errors in transcription. A reference to HalalTrip's "full board" package has also been removed.